Comments on: Is it a 100% Failure?… Or is there Hope? http://ladamedragon.com/blog/is-it-a-100-failure-or-is-there-hope Ottawa, French language courses, translation Wed, 04 Apr 2012 18:10:34 +0000 hourly 1 By: Lyne Des Roberts http://ladamedragon.com/blog/is-it-a-100-failure-or-is-there-hope/comment-page-1#comment-1251 Lyne Des Roberts Thu, 28 May 2009 02:58:09 +0000 http://ladamedragon.com/blog/?p=2797#comment-1251 Alicia, It's refreshing to hear from a young Anglophone who shows such an open mind... and I know that you aren't the only one to take pride in being bilingual. Unfortunately, it seems that people who resent «le fait français» voice their opinions louder... therefore there is this general idea that the majority of Anglos dismiss the usefulness of knowing another language. Hopefully, with the new generations, we'll be able to see a mentality shift. In my practice, I see more and more young public servants who attended French immersion schools and they consider themselves very lucky to be able to communicate in the second official language (among other things, it prevents them from having to go on fulltime FSL training)... and if their parents made the decision to put them in those schools, it's probably because they thought it would open them doors. And you said it clear and loud: the Public Service is there to represent the Canadian dual identity and it is important that those who work there understand this concept, since they are our government ambassadors. And yes! In spite of the present SLE process (which comes with flaws and some absurd notions), public servants get out of there with knowledge and it's up to them to use what they learned and get the exposure to the French culture... those who don't are actually missing something and losing quickly what took them months (if not years) to acquire... Alicia,

It’s refreshing to hear from a young Anglophone who shows such an open mind… and I know that you aren’t the only one to take pride in being bilingual. Unfortunately, it seems that people who resent «le fait français» voice their opinions louder… therefore there is this general idea that the majority of Anglos dismiss the usefulness of knowing another language.

Hopefully, with the new generations, we’ll be able to see a mentality shift. In my practice, I see more and more young public servants who attended French immersion schools and they consider themselves very lucky to be able to communicate in the second official language (among other things, it prevents them from having to go on fulltime FSL training)… and if their parents made the decision to put them in those schools, it’s probably because they thought it would open them doors. And you said it clear and loud: the Public Service is there to represent the Canadian dual identity and it is important that those who work there understand this concept, since they are our government ambassadors.

And yes! In spite of the present SLE process (which comes with flaws and some absurd notions), public servants get out of there with knowledge and it’s up to them to use what they learned and get the exposure to the French culture… those who don’t are actually missing something and losing quickly what took them months (if not years) to acquire…

]]> By: Alicia http://ladamedragon.com/blog/is-it-a-100-failure-or-is-there-hope/comment-page-1#comment-1250 Alicia Thu, 28 May 2009 02:43:09 +0000 http://ladamedragon.com/blog/?p=2797#comment-1250 I meant to add: Learning a language not only enhances our ability to comprehend another culture and opens our eyes to a new world of perspective, but the act of learning a language itself is an incredibly beneficial exercise. The fact that our government not only encourages, but PAYS FOR language training (albeit in an ineffective way) for its federal employees is something that continually awes me. I may be unfairly biased, due to my love of languages (I used to want to be a translator/interpreter), but I just can't understand how to see the learning of a language as a burden. True, the manner in which it is tested is utterly flawed, but I strongly believe in the benefit of bilingualism for all Canadians, and I find it very heartening to know that, for the most part, this is promoted in the Public Service. I feel sorry for the staunchly unilingual Anglos who get so irate over being forced to learn such an interesting language and be exposed to such a fascinating culture. They don't know what they're missing! I meant to add: Learning a language not only enhances our ability to comprehend another culture and opens our eyes to a new world of perspective, but the act of learning a language itself is an incredibly beneficial exercise. The fact that our government not only encourages, but PAYS FOR language training (albeit in an ineffective way) for its federal employees is something that continually awes me. I may be unfairly biased, due to my love of languages (I used to want to be a translator/interpreter), but I just can’t understand how to see the learning of a language as a burden. True, the manner in which it is tested is utterly flawed, but I strongly believe in the benefit of bilingualism for all Canadians, and I find it very heartening to know that, for the most part, this is promoted in the Public Service. I feel sorry for the staunchly unilingual Anglos who get so irate over being forced to learn such an interesting language and be exposed to such a fascinating culture. They don’t know what they’re missing!

]]> By: Alicia http://ladamedragon.com/blog/is-it-a-100-failure-or-is-there-hope/comment-page-1#comment-1249 Alicia Thu, 28 May 2009 01:49:21 +0000 http://ladamedragon.com/blog/?p=2797#comment-1249 Thank you for this blog post, Lyne! I'm originally from Vancouver, where the idea that French is one of the country's official languages is laughed at, and people roll their eyes at kids in French Immersion, since the idea of French being spoken anywhere outside of the classroom is absurd. While this may be true, it is by no means a reason to dismiss the usefulness of learning of another language. In my opinion, a language is a gateway to understanding another culture. In this age of globalization, what skill could be more valuable than this?! This post reminded me of a comment on another bulletin board I read a few weeks ago. The author had been asking for advice about her upcoming move to Ottawa, and the commenter warned her to stay away from Ottawa if she wasn't a French separatist, since "only Francophones can get jobs here". The comment was filled with resentment, and it made me wonder how long Francophones have been writing the same thing about English for every other Canadian city outside of Quebec. I am ashamed of the attitude of linguistic superiority held by those unilingual Anglos who argue about the pointlessness of French. It may be that English is the current "universal" language, but many languages have claimed this title over the millenia, and you don't see anyone speaking Latin anymore. The French language, while it may not be used as often as English in the Public Service, is an intrinsic part of the Canadian culture. Moving to Ottawa has allowed me to witness this first-hand. French is essential not only for performing the 10% of your tasks that require it, but for understanding the Canadian identity and being able to represent it, as the Public Service aspires to do. Thank you for this blog post, Lyne! I’m originally from Vancouver, where the idea that French is one of the country’s official languages is laughed at, and people roll their eyes at kids in French Immersion, since the idea of French being spoken anywhere outside of the classroom is absurd. While this may be true, it is by no means a reason to dismiss the usefulness of learning of another language. In my opinion, a language is a gateway to understanding another culture. In this age of globalization, what skill could be more valuable than this?!

This post reminded me of a comment on another bulletin board I read a few weeks ago. The author had been asking for advice about her upcoming move to Ottawa, and the commenter warned her to stay away from Ottawa if she wasn’t a French separatist, since “only Francophones can get jobs here”. The comment was filled with resentment, and it made me wonder how long Francophones have been writing the same thing about English for every other Canadian city outside of Quebec.

I am ashamed of the attitude of linguistic superiority held by those unilingual Anglos who argue about the pointlessness of French. It may be that English is the current “universal” language, but many languages have claimed this title over the millenia, and you don’t see anyone speaking Latin anymore. The French language, while it may not be used as often as English in the Public Service, is an intrinsic part of the Canadian culture. Moving to Ottawa has allowed me to witness this first-hand. French is essential not only for performing the 10% of your tasks that require it, but for understanding the Canadian identity and being able to represent it, as the Public Service aspires to do.

]]> By: Lyne Des Roberts http://ladamedragon.com/blog/is-it-a-100-failure-or-is-there-hope/comment-page-1#comment-1246 Lyne Des Roberts Wed, 27 May 2009 16:09:59 +0000 http://ladamedragon.com/blog/?p=2797#comment-1246 Philip, It's interesting to hear from a foreigner wondering why French (and it's more or less the same for English) is given so little emphasis in our education system... I think the problem originates from this lack of concern in the public education system: in schools, students only learn "survival French" and I'm always stunned by the lack of basic knowledge my trainees display (though they took French in school for many years). A couple of years ago, there was a great story about that on Radio-Canada... Reporters had spent some time in Vancouver high schools to see what was the French competency level of these teenagers. Senior students, after many years of French, could hardly introduce themselves and use greetings formulas!... I do agree that there is a need to improve teaching of both official languages in schools, it would prevent headaches in the future... But, Canada is declared bilingual... provinces are not, and education is under provincial jurisdiction. Therefore the Federal Government can't force Provincial Governments to make official languages teaching mandatory. Quite a dichotomy, isn't it?... As for other languages in Canada, there is no emphasis on them at all. And people who want to learn another language than French or English can't do it before they reach college or university... unless they register in private language schools offering foreign languages... A problem that will not be solved soon I'm afraid!... and this debate will go on forever... Philip,

It’s interesting to hear from a foreigner wondering why French (and it’s more or less the same for English) is given so little emphasis in our education system… I think the problem originates from this lack of concern in the public education system: in schools, students only learn “survival French” and I’m always stunned by the lack of basic knowledge my trainees display (though they took French in school for many years). A couple of years ago, there was a great story about that on Radio-Canada… Reporters had spent some time in Vancouver high schools to see what was the French competency level of these teenagers. Senior students, after many years of French, could hardly introduce themselves and use greetings formulas!…

I do agree that there is a need to improve teaching of both official languages in schools, it would prevent headaches in the future… But, Canada is declared bilingual… provinces are not, and education is under provincial jurisdiction. Therefore the Federal Government can’t force Provincial Governments to make official languages teaching mandatory. Quite a dichotomy, isn’t it?…

As for other languages in Canada, there is no emphasis on them at all. And people who want to learn another language than French or English can’t do it before they reach college or university… unless they register in private language schools offering foreign languages…

A problem that will not be solved soon I’m afraid!… and this debate will go on forever…

]]> By: Philip Lean http://ladamedragon.com/blog/is-it-a-100-failure-or-is-there-hope/comment-page-1#comment-1245 Philip Lean Wed, 27 May 2009 13:24:11 +0000 http://ladamedragon.com/blog/?p=2797#comment-1245 As an Australian I first learned about the Canadian Public Service dual language policy many years ago, listening to Anglo Canadian travelers ranting about the need for all documents, including letters, to be produced in two languages. Recently I have learned of the requirement for people at certain levels in the Canadian Public Service to be effectively bilingual. I can follow the need to understand both cultures in Canada. I mean really understand the cultures and know how to interact in the other cultures and to know what is sensitive to both cultures. I read the two articles by Kelly Egan, The Ottawa Citizen: May 19, 2009 Parlez-vous baloney? and May 20, 2009 Language in the PS: I've struck a nerve... His views seem so logical one wonders why the system is not listening. I can understand that certain jobs require the person to be bilingual, but if bilingualism is so important, why is French given such little emphasis in ordinary education? It sounds like the way French was taught in Australia when I was young, a few hours a week almost without context. At least Australia had the excuse at the time that there were almost no native French speakers in the country. The Anglo Canadians that I have talked to in the past endured the learning of French not as one of the national languages but as an alien tongue not relevant to their lives. There seems to be a basic contradiction, if being bilingual is so important, why isn't French taught in context, taught together with a comprehensive introduction to the relevant culture and history ? And what about all the other languages that exist in Canada, both indigenous and immigrant. Where is the needed emphasis on them ? Are people in the Public Service who can speak those languages suitably rewarded for their skills ? Not from what I have heard so far. Strange times. As an Australian I first learned about the Canadian Public Service dual language policy many years ago, listening to Anglo Canadian travelers ranting about the need for all documents, including letters, to be produced in two languages.

Recently I have learned of the requirement for people at certain levels in the Canadian Public Service to be effectively bilingual. I can follow the need to understand both cultures in Canada. I mean really understand the cultures and know how to interact in the other cultures and to know what is sensitive to both cultures. I read the two articles by Kelly Egan, The Ottawa Citizen:

May 19, 2009
Parlez-vous baloney?

and

May 20, 2009
Language in the PS: I’ve struck a nerve…

His views seem so logical one wonders why the system is not listening.

I can understand that certain jobs require the person to be bilingual, but if bilingualism is so important, why is French given such little emphasis in ordinary education?

It sounds like the way French was taught in Australia when I was young, a few hours a week almost without context. At least Australia had the excuse at the time that there were almost no native French speakers in the country.

The Anglo Canadians that I have talked to in the past endured the learning of French not as one of the national languages but as an alien tongue not relevant to their lives. There seems to be a basic contradiction, if being bilingual is so important, why isn’t French taught in context, taught together with a comprehensive introduction to the relevant culture and history ?

And what about all the other languages that exist in Canada, both indigenous and immigrant. Where is the needed emphasis on them ? Are people in the Public Service who can speak those languages suitably rewarded for their skills ? Not from what I have heard so far.

Strange times.

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